An interview with our Guest Contributor, Dr.Jeannette Roddy

Can you tell us about one or two of the proudest moments in your career, particularly during your transition from academia to founding Dactari? What stands out to you as the most rewarding part of this journey?

I think the proudest moment in my career was graduating at York Minster with my PhD in counselling. It had not been the easiest thing to achieve, as my first degree was in engineering and I was moving from level 6 in a science subject to level 8 in a social science. Although I had done well in my graduate diploma in counselling, that had been due to my counselling and research skills, not my essay writing capability. The PhD wasn’t just about doing the research, which I thoroughly enjoyed (challenging though it was at times), it was also about learning a whole new language and approach to writing, as well as catching up on all the papers and books I hadn’t read as an undergraduate. There were moments where I could have cheerfully walked away from writing up, but I felt a very strong commitment to seeing it through to completion for the sake of my participants and York St John University, who had provided the funding for my PhD. After I received my PhD from the Archbishop of York and started to leave, he touched me on the shoulder and said ‘God Bless You’ which I took as his acknowledgement of the work I had completed. It was a very special moment.

I moved into academia from there, as it provided an opportunity to continue my research whilst earning a living, and I did want to take the research further to show the model worked and that it was possible to get really good outcomes with people who had experienced domestic abuse, both of which I achieved through jobs, firstly through a research project funded by the University of Sunderland, and then through the domestic abuse service at the University of Salford. I can remember the exact moment I decided to leave academia to set up Dactari. I was hosting one of our social evenings at my house in Salford with the domestic abuse counselling team and we were having a general discussion, when some of the team members suggested various developments to the service and the training, all of which I had already considered but had found very difficult to achieve. What I wanted to do was to provide training for therapists beyond Salford so that we could have more specialist therapy available locally across the UK. In my heart I knew that staying in at the university meant that I could not achieve my goal to do this. Setting up a new business would allow me to reach more therapists who wanted to learn how to work with domestic abuse, at a price that I hoped would be affordable to most.

Dactari offers a unique counselling model for individuals affected by domestic abuse, regardless of gender, sexuality, or faith. Could you share more about how this inclusive approach was developed and why it’s central to your mission?

I had been working with an all-female agency and had received training in the feminist model of counselling, but I was also aware of my own life experience which suggested women were just as capable of controlling behaviours as men, just in a slightly different way. When I started my research, I was keen to include men as well for that reason, although at this stage I was not sure what that would look like. When I sat down with my first male participant, I was aware that my head was filled with doubts about his story based on my training on domestic abuse, whilst my training as a counsellor suggested everything he was saying was very real to him. I managed to put the thoughts to one side whilst I completed the interview, and then spent around 3-4 months trying to work out how both my counselling training and my knowledge of domestic abuse could co-exist, rather than compete. My research showed that there was a very consistent picture for male on female violence, but once you expanded the definition of domestic violence to domestic abuse (as happened in 2012-13), the picture changed dramatically and the types of abuse experienced by men and women were remarkably similar. I was also aware of coming at the problem from a psychological rather social science perspective and so rather than look for signs of power within society, I looked at the power dynamic within relationship. Once you can see power as being facilitated by an abuser based on the other person’s owned perceived areas of weakness, you then see how domestic abuse can be found in all strata of society, independent of societal power. I was particularly surprised by how the same words were used by participants to explain their experience across all the studies. This is not to say that there is no societal power involved, more that it is not enough to assume one party as the abuser and the other as the victim, that the experience needs careful exploration to help the person understand what happened. I could see immediately why the training I had had around male dominance in these relationships had had a negative impact on my ability to work effectively with the male participant. I also recognised that understanding the types of abuse and how they could be used by abusers was a much more helpful model when trying to support mental health issues. Hence we use this model of working with the client experience within a framework of recognised abusive behaviours, independent of difference, as a much more helpful model for mental health professionals.

I think some of the key areas for development are happening already. The focus on educating school children about what is ok and what is not ok in a relationship will reduce domestic abuse occurrences in the future. There is more recognition of what the warning signs of domestic abuse might be in other people’s relationships, but it is still very difficult to see or accept in your own relationship. We are now starting to provide the tools for people to have those difficult (and sometimes unwelcome) conversations. However, there does seem to be a view that getting out of the relationship is enough, when the mental health consequences of an abusive relationship can last for years afterwards. The other issue is that researchers tend to measure things like depression and anxiety levels, leading to a conclusion that if you offer mental health provision to alleviate those two symptoms, that will be enough. The reality is that the person needs to process their experiences, and the depression and anxiety will lift as they come to terms with life then and the possibilities of life now. Whilst we continue to refer survivors of domestic abuse to general practitioners, we will continue to have the very mixed outcomes that we see. I would like to see a change in policy which requires mental professionals to specialise in this area and to complete training prior to appointment. This will make the therapy process much more efficient and helpful to everyone trying to access services.

An area for public support would be better recognition that one third of reported domestic abuse is from men, with two thirds women, that women are much more likely to be killed by their male partners and men are much more likely to be killed by female partners (although women are more likely to be killed), and that the mental health consequences of domestic abuse lead more people to end their own lives than are murdered by their partners. Perhaps this would help us to see domestic abuse in its wider context and also mental health issues as a much bigger area for development than is currently seen.

Starting your own counselling and training business must have presented some unique challenges. What’s been the biggest obstacle in setting up Dactari, and how did you and you overcome it?

The biggest challenge to modern business is marketing through social media. Everything seems to be linked to algorithms which can be skewed by advertising. As we had a tiny marketing budget we had to start from scratch in terms of managing our website rankings, using as much information as we could from people in the know, as well as doing our own social media where we could. As a very small team with limited resources and knowledge, we had to try things and stop if there was no impact, and try something else. Ironically we still rank on pages 3 and 4 in Google for domestic abuse counselling training, despite being the only specialist organisation in the UK! It has taken a couple of years to get even to that level, so using networking events, seminars, online presentations etc. has been useful in raising our profile in different ways.

Given your research background, how do you continue to bring evidence-based practices into Dactari’s model? Are there recent studies or findings that have influenced your work?

I do keep an eye on current research as it is published and fortunately a lot of it is open access or available from the HE the authors are from. As things move on, I update our training to reflect that and also update our therapists on anything that we can integrate or use when I find it.

Could you tell us more about how your work as a clinical supervisor informs Dactari’s training offerings? What do you feel is most important for counsellors to learn in order to work with people affected by domestic abuse?

I find working with counsellors in supervision really helpful in terms of understanding how things are changing in the field. For example, we are seeing a lot more internet abuse now than 5 years ago. Again, we update the training to reflect what we are seeing currently in the field. One of the things we do in our training is we have role play sessions, where I write a back story for the client and for counsellor and they then do a skills session together (based on the specific skills we highlight in training). This is particularly helpful as the person who is ‘client’ has to imagine their way into the situation and then work out what they want to say and what they don’t want to say. This is hugely valuable in understanding just how difficult it can be for people who have been abused to sit in the counselling chair, why they might sometimes respond in the way that they do, and what may be most useful in that moment.

At The For Baby’s Sake Trust, we work with families affected by domestic abuse, focusing on holistic, multi-agency approaches. What role do you think specialised counselling services like Dactari can play in partnership with organisations focused on supporting families in abusive environments?

I think there is tremendous scope for partnership working. Sometimes in abusive relationships it is not simply an abuser and an abused person, sometimes it is a co-abusive relationship. In these cases, working with each of the partners, or together as a couple (where it is safe to do so) can really help them to work out why they respond in the way that they do, and how they might prefer to respond. Working with experiences means that we can work with either or both, and support changes in behaviour in a safe space where all thoughts and feelings are welcome. Where an individual does want to change, this can significantly assist the process of change within the relationship.

Your work covers a range of complex issues, from depression and anxiety to trauma and suicidal ideation. Do you see any trends in the types of support clients are seeking? How has the demand for domestic abuse counselling evolved over time?

We are seeing people who have been out of relationships for some time and are recognising that the past relationship is negatively impacting on their new relationship. We are also seeing more people who have been referred for general counselling and feel that the counsellor ‘just didn’t get it’ who then come to us as a last resort. During my research over 10 years ago, over 80% of the participants had had negative counselling experiences. I suspect that this statistic may not have changed so much since then. I continue to hope that I can, in some way, reduce that figure due to the work that we do.

In developing training programmes at Dactari, what has surprised you most about the needs and gaps among frontline professionals working with survivors of domestic abuse?

Finally, could you share your vision for Dactari over the next few years? Are there any new initiatives or areas of expansion you’re particularly excited about?

We are starting to gain some momentum in terms of our training package. If we continue to see interest growing, I would like to increase the frequency of the training (currently 3 per year). It would be amazing to be able to run these training sessions monthly! Equally, I would like to provide training services for organisations who will have domestic abuse clients referred into them, so that we can support that client work effectively. If that were the NHS, I would be overjoyed at the prospect of supporting one of the largest mental health provisions in the country.